Craftsman 28330 Walking Tour

I was bumming around near a Sears store over the weekend and decided to pop in to see if they had a 28330 model table saw set up on the floor. With all of my research about this saw (and the Ridgid r4512 and Steel City 35990), I had still never actually seen one in person. I’m amazed that there are so few photographs available on the web. It’s like the companies are trying to keep this saw hush-hush. When you go to the company websites, they only offer a photo from the front of the saw and it’s too far away to see much detail. Well, there was a 28330 set up and so I surreptitiously took out my phone camera and snapped a few photos from different angles.



I was curious about what the back and the sides of the saw looked like. I knew that the motor was enclosed, but didn’t know where the dust port was located. So here is my little walking tour around this saw. Granted, the saw was set up as a floor model and so I’m sure no time was spent trying to adjust anything. It was just happy to actually be able to go hands-on with it.




The first thing I noticed, when I tried to push the saw and nudge it around a little, was that it didn’t budge at all. It felt very solid. The table wings, while being stamped steel, seemed heavy-duty enough. Despite pushing down on it fairly hard, I couldn’t get it to bend or flex. If they were adjusted to be flat with the main cast iron table, I’m sure they would be perfectly adequate. They were marked up quite a bit, and if that’s what they look like after only mild handling in the store, I’m sure they would look pretty awful with even moderate work in the shop. One of the first things I would do is give them a good coat of wax.


The blade-raising wheel worked really well. The movement felt great. The lock mechanism was also very good and I couldn't budge the wheel after I locked it down. Now, the tilt mechanism was a different story. The movement was great, but the lock barely worked at all. Again, this is a floor model, so I’m sure with adequate set-up, it would work fine. I was very impressed with the fence. I moved it around a bit, lined it up with the outer edge of the right miter slot and clamped it down. The back of the fence didn’t move at all. It stayed perfectly aligned to the miter slot. And when I pressed on it with my fingers, I couldn’t get it to move with moderate force. That bodes very well. The caster system didn’t seem to be totally installed, so I couldn’t really test it out.


The final thing I looked at was the blade guard and riving knife system. They were very poorly installed (as you can see), so it was hard to judge them at all. I don’t know enough about riving knives to know how rigid they are supposed to be. I could move it with light pressure, but I don’t know if that’s how it is supposed to be or just how this one was due to sloppy set up. I assume it is supposed to be fairly rigid.



This saw is being offered for $549 at Sears. There wasn’t a store manager around (a good thing, because he would have probably called security), but I will contact them to see if they knock prices down for floor models. Sears has lots of sales and special offers, so I’ll keep an ear out. Hmmm…

Knock-down, Drag-out Table Saws

In my thinking about table saws, I’ve gone from the extreme of the huge cabinet saw down to thoughts of screwing a circular saw upside down on a piece of plywood and calling it a day. Somewhere in the middle is a guy named Steve Jones who has invented a way of using a Festool circular saw on the Festool Multifunction Table to make a table saw. The amazing thing about this is that the Festool circular saw has a riving knife and has probably the best dust collection system around. It doesn’t look like these kits are in production, but it was a pretty great idea. While it wouldn't have the power for heavy-duty stuff, it would probably suffice for most jobs. It would be a plywood-cutting monster. Either way, I love his thinking and creativity on this.

With just a little more looking around, I saw that Triton has a knock-down table saw system as well. I own a Triton router that is a really great machine, so I'm always interested to see what they come up with. I’m not sure I’d want to have one of these, but you have to admit this thing is pretty innovative. It also has lots of attachments for routing, sanding and even planing. It reminds me of the Shop Smith. Very cool ideas. Not sure where they'd put the lathe though...



Speaking of table saws, I might have an exciting announcement next week. I'll keep you posted.

The One That Got Away

I was tracking a table saw on Craigslist -- a pristine Ridgid 3650 -- but the seller wasn’t willing to come down on the price and I decided that it was just too expensive. He said he had only used it a couple of days and from the photos, I believe it. I understand that he wanted to get as much as he could for essentially a new saw, but the price was too close to the price for a new saw. If it’s only $100 or so cheaper than a brand new one, I think I would just rather wait until I can scrape the extra $100 together. The lifetime warranty on the Ridgid saw is probably worth the $100 by itself.

If I see a really cheap 3650, like $200, maybe I would do it. Then again, I don’t want to have a saw that is beat up, rusted and needs a lot of work just to run. I know I would be happier if I could have the saw I want with the features I want and I can handle delaying the satisfaction a bit to get it. To raise a bit more money, I’m actually thinking of selling a few things. You don’t happen to be in the market for a banjo, do you??

More table saw thoughts (in case everyone isn't sick of me talking about table saws yet)

I’ve narrowed down the major features I want in a table saw:

Cast iron top (stamped wings are ok) which rules out all the portable ones

Riving knife

Good fence

Good dust collection and sound reduction (enclosed motor would be ideal)

Mobile base

$300 to $500 range

The saws that include all of these features are actually the same saw – at least they are made from the same factory to similar specifications and marketed under different brands. Those are the Ridgid 4512, the Steel City 35990C (the C stands for cast iron; there is also a granite version) and the Craftsman 21833.

They do look pretty darn similar except the paint and the bottom part of the stand. I’m not sure if quality varies from brand to brand. I also have to check into warranties. So now I’m going to see what I can find used and also keep my eyes on these saws in the hopes of finding one on sale. For the Craftsman, there is a chance I could get one at a discount from their outlet store. Not sure if that would be more trouble than the savings are worth. All the other saws I looked at, especially the Ridgid 3650, seem great. But I think I would regret not buying a high quality saw with the safety features I want. When I mentioned that to my wife, she asked if I was going to buy a hotdog saw, meaning the SawStop contractor saw. (See the famous hotdog video here.) That would be ideal but I can’t shell out the bones for a $1,300 saw at the moment. I’ll be patient and see what Craigslist can do for me.

What’s the big deal about a riving knife?

A couple folks have written to ask why I’m sort of fixated on having a riving knife for the next table saw I own. A splitter would be better than nothing, but a riving knife would be even better.

So what’s the difference between a splitter and a riving knife? A splitter is a piece of metal the same thickness as a saw blade mounted in a fixed location behind the blade. It prevents the two parts of the board that have been cut from coming back together because of internal pressure and pinching the blade, which leads to kickback. A riving knife moves up and down relative to the blade. One advantage of a riving knife over a splitter is that it can be used in groove cuts. It doesn’t so much help to prevent kickback in groove cuts, though it probably does to some degree, as it makes it unnecessary to remove it. That makes it more likely that it will remain installed for future cuts. The idea is that if you remove the splitter to do a groove cut, you might not put it back on immediately. Any barrier to installing the splitter, no matter how trivial, makes a saw less safe.

When ripping the entire length of a board, a splitter performs almost identically to a riving knife, though the riving knife is closer to the blade and follows the arch of the blade so that there is a bit more protection. A riving knife also prevents cut off pieces from drifting back into the blade. Check out this photo of a riving knife on the Ridgid R4511 saw taken by PurpLev for his review on Lumberjocks. This is a great view showing how close the riving knife stays to the blade at all times. Also, check out this excellent video from Finewoodworking.com that shows how riving knives prevent kickback.

I had an experience once where a riving knife would have been nice to have. I was taking a woodworking class and was ripping a 5’ long piece of cherry. For some reason this piece had a lot of crazy, internal spring in it. During the cut – about one foot in – the two pieces on either side of the just-cut kerf clamped together, pinching the blade and bogging down the saw. I was already out of the way, but I ducked a little bit more just to be sure. In the same motion I was able to turn off the saw. The grip was so tight that I had to drill a little hole on the far end of the blade to release some of the pressure and remove the board from the saw. Needless to say, that was a cursed piece of wood and I chopped it up and got rid of it. I’m lucky that the pinched blade didn’t throw the board back at me. Though I was in the correct position and probably wouldn’t have been hit, I didn’t even want it to come close. A good splitter or riving knife would have prevented the wood from pinching the blade. A riving knife would have been more likely to have been installed in the first place.

Table saw comparison: Ridgid R4512 vs. Ridgid 3650

So I’m trying to think through the purchase of a used table saw. There were a couple solid options on Craigslist, both of them from Ridgid, that I was interested in. Note the past tense. As it sometimes goes with craigslist, one of the saws was not what I was lead to believe it was. I thought it was a model R4512 but it turns out it was a sort of beat up 3650. There is nothing wrong with the 3650. In fact, I may end up buying one. But I was hoping it was the R4512 mostly because of the riving knife.

Since these two saws are my top two choices (considering price and features), I’ll continue with my comparison of them even though the R4512 isn’t available on craigslist right now. I'm sure one will come up soon. I realize there are a million different options and I know everyone has opinions about which brands to get. But I’m limiting this discussion to these two machines for the moment. (By the way, if you are ever searching for Ridgid products on Craigslist, don’t waste your time spelling it correctly. It is almost universally misspelled as “Rigid.”)

I think both of these saws are solid but of course both have their trade-offs. Both have table-mounted trunnions. (“Trunnion” is such a cool, medieval sounding word!) I’ve read lots of strong opinions about how table-mounted trunnions make it difficult to align the blade. I understand that and had an experience a few years ago where I had to return a saw because I couldn’t get the blade aligned. That said, both of these saws are supposed to have features that make it possible to align the blade, so that shouldn’t be an issue. Here is what Fine Woodworking said about it: “As on most contractor’s saws, the trunnions are mounted to the underside of the table, but this saw also has a simple cam and lever built into the rear trunnion.” In the other review referenced below, the person wrote that the left slot on the table was aligned to the blade to .001” over the length of the blade out of the box, which is closer than I’ll ever need. Both machines have a mobile base. Both seem heavy and powerful enough to handle the kind of stuff I plan to do.

I’ve read lots of good things about the 3650. It seems like a workhorse. The one I looked at today was ok, but it has been poorly maintained to say the least. There is another 3650 on craigslist that I will probably go see soon. The 3650 has a cast iron table and cast iron wings. It has a splitter but not a riving knife. The fence seems to be almost to the quality level of after-market fences. The R4512 has a cast iron top but stamped metal wings. There are lots of people who aren’t able to get past this. Cast iron wings would obviously be better, but of all the ripping you do on a table saw, I’ll bet 90% of it happens within 10 or 12 inches of the saw blade, and that area is cast iron on both saws. The only major downside to the stamped wings would be if they got bent out of shape somehow. On the positive side, the R4512 apparently has a really good riving knife. Also, the motor is enclosed, which helps with dust collection and noise suppression – two things that are very important to me in my small, basement shop.

There has been a lot written about the 3650, but almost nothing about the R4512 that I have been able to find. You would think that because it is a major offering from Home Depot, the major woodworking magazines would have done a write up. If I buy one, I’ll definitely write about it. I have to say that right now I’m leaning toward the R4512 because of the riving knife and dust collection. If all things are equal (or even roughly similar), those are two of my most important considerations. If anyone has an R4512, please let me know how it is working for you. Likewise with the 3650.

Here is a review of the 3650 on FineWoodworking.com:

Sometimes the best thing about the review is the comments that it generates. http://www.finewoodworking.com/ToolGuide/ToolGuideProduct.aspx?id=5709

Here is another review of the 3650: http://benchmark.20m.com/reviews/RidgidTS3650/RidgidTS3650Review.html

Here are some Lumberjocks reviews of the R4511, the model that the 4512 replaces. The 4511 had a granite top: http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/product/837

Who Needs a Table Saw? I Do.

Getting back into woodworking after a while away, I’m at a point where I’m thinking about buying a table saw. Marc Spagnuolo (a.k.a. the Wood Whisperer) posed an interesting question on the Facebook a while back: could you live without a table saw? Most woodworkers probably couldn't. There are hand tool folks who would say they absolutely could (and do). I've lived without one for years, but I have the random lumber sitting around to show that I haven't made much either. I like to use hand tools, but mostly to cut joints – not doing major dimensioning of lumber.

A table saw makes quick work of ripping and grooving. I’ve already got a good crosscut saw, which is a big chunk of what table saws can also do. And there are plenty of options for ripping wood to width. I could use my band saw and then clean up the edge with a hand plane. For small pieces for things like boxes, I could use my crosscut saw to cut to length and width, especially with a little jig I have in mind. Aside from that, I want to explore what I can safely do with a router table. For you folks who know tons about router safety, my idea is to use a straight bit and route a groove in the material to the width I need, then cut outside of that with a band saw and follow up by using a flush bearing bit to ride along the previously routed edge and clean up the unrouted part. That would work, wouldn't it? It certainly wouldn't be the most efficient operation in the world, especially if I had to change bits back and forth. Again, not ideal but it would work.

One of the things driving my interest is a table saw someone has for sale on craigslist here in Nashville. It is one of the models I’m interested in (more on that in a future post), is less than a year old and is priced fairly cheaply. The other thing is that the seller is moving away on Dec. 27, so they have to get rid of the thing. I don’t want to take advantage of people, but that definitely makes this a buyer’s market.

I do think a table saw would make basic tasks more efficient and that would make the whole woodworking experience more enjoyable and in turn inspire me to make more things. Any time I drop money on something, I try to think of how I can make it pay for itself. I’ve got lots of ideas for small, marketable things that I could sell online and if I could sell a few here and there I think I would be in good shape. The other thing I think about when buying a new tool is how that tool will lead me to the next, better tool. That’s always the quest, isn’t it?

In the next few days I’m going to compare a couple models of table saws and would love to hear feedback from anyone who owns one of them. I’m interested to hear what people have to say.

Who Needs a Table Saw?

I’m in the market for a table saw, so I’ve been looking at all the different models that meet my requirements. If you’re going to look at the whole gamut of what’s available, you have to look at the Jointmaker Pro v2 from Bridge City Tool Works. I saw founder John Economaki demonstrate one to a wowed crowd of onlookers at the Woodworking in America conference I attended a couple years ago. The simplest way to describe the Jointmaker is that it is a hand-powered table saw that uses a Japanese saw blade mounted so that a table slides very precisely above it. The saw blade can be tilted in both directions and can be adjusted for depth. This simple flexibility allows it to make incredible things, from snug-fitting tenons to crazily precise miters.

As far as I can tell, it does everything a regular table saw does except for long rip cuts, which is why it is called the Jointmaker. Producing almost no noise and using no electrical power, it is quite a minimalist saw, but that’s the point. I like the way Economaki thinks. Instead of starting with the most advanced, feature-laden hulk of a table saw and working backward, he started with nothing and worked forward, creating a tool that handles the basics so well that you won't need all the bells and whistles and the overkill of most table saws. The result is a saw that gives you total control and exceptional accuracy. And it strikes me as being incredibly safe as well. First, there is no risk of kickback. And while there is always a risk of cutting yourself on any saw, there is no risk of doing anything catastrophic with this one.

For people who don’t want a noisy table saw and don’t have a lot of space, it would be a very cool thing to have. Unfortunately, the other part of the equation – the price of $1,250 – puts it out of my budget. Check out their promotional video on Youtube to see the Jointmaker’s capabilities.

I highly recommend checking out Bridge City Tool Works. They’ve got some of the most imaginative and cool-looking tools I’ve ever seen. Their blog is also worth reading for fascinating information about tool-making and for general woodworking inspiration.